Lt. Colonel Alexander Vindman knew when he went into the Trump White House to work on the National Security Council that he may be asked to do things that were “awful but lawful.” As a serving army officer in those cases he would be obligated to follow the orders of the Commander-in-Chief. But he also knew there was a line that he would not cross. He would not follow an unlawful order, he would not help even the president break the law. As a result of his conscience–which drew directly on his military experience and prior to that on the values inculcated in him by his family–the course of history was altered. Imagine what might have happened had Donald Trump gotten the government of Ukraine to help him smear candidate Joe Biden? Where would we be now? We discuss Vindman’s story–told in his excellent new book, “Here, Right Matters”–with him in this special edition of the podcast. It’s a compelling, candid conversation. Don’t miss it.